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	<title>Comments on: Not of This World</title>
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	<description>lights, media, and why the church needs both.</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://visualworshiper.com/blog/2009/05/not-of-this-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3846</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 19:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visualworshiper.com/blog/?p=302#comment-3846</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Architecture Blogs...&lt;/strong&gt;

...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Architecture Blogs&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://visualworshiper.com/blog/2009/05/not-of-this-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3845</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 02:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visualworshiper.com/blog/?p=302#comment-3845</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s say I go into a five star restaurant with one of those fancy European chefs (tall white hat, weird accent - the whole package) and order a $75 meal because I&#039;m just so hungry. The wait staff is amazing. They treat me like a king. The table settings are beautiful. i never payed attention to table settings before, but these - I notice. They must cost a fortune. A four piece orchestra plays appropriately in the background - no canned music here! I place my order, eagerly awaiting the feast-to-come. After a short time, the meal arrives. Except... it is served to me, by the professional wait staff, rotten and smelling up the entire room. I don&#039;t want to eat it. I certainly don&#039;t want to pay for it. I wouldn&#039;t go back, regardless of the professional staff.

I think there has to be balance. Creativity without content is like faith without works. It is dead. No matter how hard we try to lead people in worship, we can only go as far as the Word which is given will allow. The Truth is the only thing that will satisfy.

Let&#039;s say I crawl into a hole in the wall &quot;cafe&quot; (imagine a border town watering hole kind of place) just needing a drop of water before I pass out from the heat. When I look around, I see cockroaches, filth... the heat inside is worse than the heat outside in the blazing sun. The place has a smell to it - like porto-potty water was used to mop everything down. And the bar tender offers me a tall glass of water. No way am I drinking that. It may be normal for those people. Commonplace. They may not notice the bugs or the smell. But it&#039;s not for me - not for those who are where I&#039;m from. I drink bottled water treated with reverse osmosis. Tap water is just plain unhealthy.

Even with content that is vital to life as a Christian, a culturally ignorant house of worship should only expect to draw and keep a certain kind of crowd. We need balance. It would be different for every church. If there was a blueprint, I think the blueprint&#039;s foundation would say Balance. Great worship without a solid foundation in the preaching isn&#039;t nearly as effective. And (I believe) a great sermon without proper worship leaves me feeling empty inside. We are commanded to praise Him with a shout, with dancing and singing after all.

As a photographer/video guy, I say turn it all off - first listen to the content. Without content, I won&#039;t stay around. There&#039;s a mega church 5 miles from my house. I don&#039;t go there because it&#039;s so overproduced. I&#039;m looking for depth, not HD projectors. I want a solid relationship with my Lord, not a band with more than three number one hits. Pardon my tone if it seems coarse, but I&#039;m ready to find a home. I&#039;m so tired of the rotten stuff. Let&#039;s change the way things are done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s say I go into a five star restaurant with one of those fancy European chefs (tall white hat, weird accent &#8211; the whole package) and order a $75 meal because I&#8217;m just so hungry. The wait staff is amazing. They treat me like a king. The table settings are beautiful. i never payed attention to table settings before, but these &#8211; I notice. They must cost a fortune. A four piece orchestra plays appropriately in the background &#8211; no canned music here! I place my order, eagerly awaiting the feast-to-come. After a short time, the meal arrives. Except&#8230; it is served to me, by the professional wait staff, rotten and smelling up the entire room. I don&#8217;t want to eat it. I certainly don&#8217;t want to pay for it. I wouldn&#8217;t go back, regardless of the professional staff.</p>
<p>I think there has to be balance. Creativity without content is like faith without works. It is dead. No matter how hard we try to lead people in worship, we can only go as far as the Word which is given will allow. The Truth is the only thing that will satisfy.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say I crawl into a hole in the wall &#8220;cafe&#8221; (imagine a border town watering hole kind of place) just needing a drop of water before I pass out from the heat. When I look around, I see cockroaches, filth&#8230; the heat inside is worse than the heat outside in the blazing sun. The place has a smell to it &#8211; like porto-potty water was used to mop everything down. And the bar tender offers me a tall glass of water. No way am I drinking that. It may be normal for those people. Commonplace. They may not notice the bugs or the smell. But it&#8217;s not for me &#8211; not for those who are where I&#8217;m from. I drink bottled water treated with reverse osmosis. Tap water is just plain unhealthy.</p>
<p>Even with content that is vital to life as a Christian, a culturally ignorant house of worship should only expect to draw and keep a certain kind of crowd. We need balance. It would be different for every church. If there was a blueprint, I think the blueprint&#8217;s foundation would say Balance. Great worship without a solid foundation in the preaching isn&#8217;t nearly as effective. And (I believe) a great sermon without proper worship leaves me feeling empty inside. We are commanded to praise Him with a shout, with dancing and singing after all.</p>
<p>As a photographer/video guy, I say turn it all off &#8211; first listen to the content. Without content, I won&#8217;t stay around. There&#8217;s a mega church 5 miles from my house. I don&#8217;t go there because it&#8217;s so overproduced. I&#8217;m looking for depth, not HD projectors. I want a solid relationship with my Lord, not a band with more than three number one hits. Pardon my tone if it seems coarse, but I&#8217;m ready to find a home. I&#8217;m so tired of the rotten stuff. Let&#8217;s change the way things are done.</p>
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		<title>By: proctor</title>
		<link>http://visualworshiper.com/blog/2009/05/not-of-this-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3844</link>
		<dc:creator>proctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 21:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visualworshiper.com/blog/?p=302#comment-3844</guid>
		<description>you can also blame Camron for introducing me to this book, for which is reinforcing what i&#039;m talking about here....

http://www.creativeworshiptour.com/video/video/show?id=2131390:Video:19142</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you can also blame Camron for introducing me to this book, for which is reinforcing what i&#8217;m talking about here&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.creativeworshiptour.com/video/video/show?id=2131390:Video:19142" rel="nofollow">http://www.creativeworshiptour.com/video/video/show?id=2131390:Video:19142</a></p>
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		<title>By: proctor</title>
		<link>http://visualworshiper.com/blog/2009/05/not-of-this-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3843</link>
		<dc:creator>proctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 21:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visualworshiper.com/blog/?p=302#comment-3843</guid>
		<description>i might question that the trick is NOT to get them through the doors, but to love them and engage them in relationship in the context of their own world/culture so that when they DO come through the doors of our church buildings they are met with love and authenticity and are exposed to burning passionate worship that is contagious but that they might not even understand fully (which is OK and actually biblical). 
Our worship gatherings are NOT to be the fix-all evangelistic tool and i fear that many churches today operate in that mode. i.e. &quot;bring a lost friend to church on Sunday so they&#039;ll hear the Gospel&quot; - it takes most of the responsibility off the individual congregants and places it all on the preacher. Or as today&#039;s church culture screams &quot;make it big and flashy and look like the latest ABC reality show so that it&#039;s attractive and &quot;relevant&quot; to them.&quot; 

what does &quot;let Jesus take it from there&quot; mean actually? do you mean the Holy Spirit?

I dare say that church worship environments should be RELEVANT ONLY to the currently attending congregation...not made to be relevant to outsiders and non-believers. We&#039;ve got it all backwards.  Plus the one&#039;s mostly upset with irrelevant churches are the church-goers themselves (aka you and me)...it&#039;s not our lost friends. but we say it is so that it puts more weight behind what WE want to see changed.

but when outsiders visit, what should hit them smack in the face is AUTHENTICITY....which is HUGELY LACKING in most Western Churches today. That&#039;s why no one wants to come and we have SETTLED to resorting to putting on a good &quot;show&quot; that will hopefully attract the worldly people around us.....and we usually just end up looking like fools anyway.

I dare say that a non-believer is going to remember being loved &amp; accepted in an authentic way MORE than plasma screens in the lobby, projection on the walls, motion background on the screens, lame powerpoints, overheads, hymnals, old school songs, latest rock songs, whatever...... THEY ACTUALLY DON&#039;T PICK UP ON MOST OF THAT unless the whole place looks like DISNEY WORLD in which case all they might remember is &quot;dang this church has a lot of money&quot;. 

who the heck knows. 
I am not qualified nor do i have a seminary degree nor any prestigious training on the matter.
Just a deep sense and ache in my heart that screams &quot;GUYS! WE&#039;VE GOT IT ALL BACKWARDS!!!!!!!!!&quot;

what does all this mean in the context of the visual atmosphere of a church? well, for one, candles represent intimacy and authenticity. and more cathedral-like churches are copies of some of the most creative and artistic architectures in the world  TO DATE (old churches in Europe). Now THAT&#039;S creativity....not flash-bang production.
and three...let&#039;s be honest here....it&#039;s not really THAT important. Not compared to the fact that injustices are happening in the world every day and that thousands of tribes have YET to hear the name of Jesus. it&#039;s not THAT important.
But, as Paul says in Colossians, ....whatever you do (meaning anything under the sun), do it in the name of the Lord, which means it must be done with excellence. 

can someone please throw a bucket of cold water on me? 
b/c i&#039;m probably speaking out way too much here on things i don&#039;t really know about.
it&#039;s not popular. and it&#039;s not poetic. 
it is what it is.... authentically and un-edited from my heart.

wanting to learn and needing to gain wisdom,
a VJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i might question that the trick is NOT to get them through the doors, but to love them and engage them in relationship in the context of their own world/culture so that when they DO come through the doors of our church buildings they are met with love and authenticity and are exposed to burning passionate worship that is contagious but that they might not even understand fully (which is OK and actually biblical).<br />
Our worship gatherings are NOT to be the fix-all evangelistic tool and i fear that many churches today operate in that mode. i.e. &#8220;bring a lost friend to church on Sunday so they&#8217;ll hear the Gospel&#8221; &#8211; it takes most of the responsibility off the individual congregants and places it all on the preacher. Or as today&#8217;s church culture screams &#8220;make it big and flashy and look like the latest ABC reality show so that it&#8217;s attractive and &#8220;relevant&#8221; to them.&#8221; </p>
<p>what does &#8220;let Jesus take it from there&#8221; mean actually? do you mean the Holy Spirit?</p>
<p>I dare say that church worship environments should be RELEVANT ONLY to the currently attending congregation&#8230;not made to be relevant to outsiders and non-believers. We&#8217;ve got it all backwards.  Plus the one&#8217;s mostly upset with irrelevant churches are the church-goers themselves (aka you and me)&#8230;it&#8217;s not our lost friends. but we say it is so that it puts more weight behind what WE want to see changed.</p>
<p>but when outsiders visit, what should hit them smack in the face is AUTHENTICITY&#8230;.which is HUGELY LACKING in most Western Churches today. That&#8217;s why no one wants to come and we have SETTLED to resorting to putting on a good &#8220;show&#8221; that will hopefully attract the worldly people around us&#8230;..and we usually just end up looking like fools anyway.</p>
<p>I dare say that a non-believer is going to remember being loved &amp; accepted in an authentic way MORE than plasma screens in the lobby, projection on the walls, motion background on the screens, lame powerpoints, overheads, hymnals, old school songs, latest rock songs, whatever&#8230;&#8230; THEY ACTUALLY DON&#8217;T PICK UP ON MOST OF THAT unless the whole place looks like DISNEY WORLD in which case all they might remember is &#8220;dang this church has a lot of money&#8221;. </p>
<p>who the heck knows.<br />
I am not qualified nor do i have a seminary degree nor any prestigious training on the matter.<br />
Just a deep sense and ache in my heart that screams &#8220;GUYS! WE&#8217;VE GOT IT ALL BACKWARDS!!!!!!!!!&#8221;</p>
<p>what does all this mean in the context of the visual atmosphere of a church? well, for one, candles represent intimacy and authenticity. and more cathedral-like churches are copies of some of the most creative and artistic architectures in the world  TO DATE (old churches in Europe). Now THAT&#8217;S creativity&#8230;.not flash-bang production.<br />
and three&#8230;let&#8217;s be honest here&#8230;.it&#8217;s not really THAT important. Not compared to the fact that injustices are happening in the world every day and that thousands of tribes have YET to hear the name of Jesus. it&#8217;s not THAT important.<br />
But, as Paul says in Colossians, &#8230;.whatever you do (meaning anything under the sun), do it in the name of the Lord, which means it must be done with excellence. </p>
<p>can someone please throw a bucket of cold water on me?<br />
b/c i&#8217;m probably speaking out way too much here on things i don&#8217;t really know about.<br />
it&#8217;s not popular. and it&#8217;s not poetic.<br />
it is what it is&#8230;. authentically and un-edited from my heart.</p>
<p>wanting to learn and needing to gain wisdom,<br />
a VJ</p>
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		<title>By: Camron Ware - Visual Worshiper</title>
		<link>http://visualworshiper.com/blog/2009/05/not-of-this-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3841</link>
		<dc:creator>Camron Ware - Visual Worshiper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 22:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visualworshiper.com/blog/?p=302#comment-3841</guid>
		<description>@MandoRon:  Time to either turn it down, or just get stronger stained glass.  ;-)  Just kidding.

@Jimmy:  I thought about that too...like, how does this survey play out in the real world...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MandoRon:  Time to either turn it down, or just get stronger stained glass.  <img src='http://visualworshiper.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   Just kidding.</p>
<p>@Jimmy:  I thought about that too&#8230;like, how does this survey play out in the real world&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://visualworshiper.com/blog/2009/05/not-of-this-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3840</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 20:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visualworshiper.com/blog/?p=302#comment-3840</guid>
		<description>What people say on a survey and what they do when they are exposed to a post-modern relevant seeker church may be two different things. The trick is to get them through the doors. Let Jesus take it from there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What people say on a survey and what they do when they are exposed to a post-modern relevant seeker church may be two different things. The trick is to get them through the doors. Let Jesus take it from there.</p>
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		<title>By: MandoRon</title>
		<link>http://visualworshiper.com/blog/2009/05/not-of-this-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3839</link>
		<dc:creator>MandoRon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 22:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visualworshiper.com/blog/?p=302#comment-3839</guid>
		<description>Hmmm...  I&#039;m not sure that stained glass could handle the decibel levels at some churches...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;  I&#8217;m not sure that stained glass could handle the decibel levels at some churches&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://visualworshiper.com/blog/2009/05/not-of-this-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3838</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 21:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visualworshiper.com/blog/?p=302#comment-3838</guid>
		<description>&quot;Tradition has a bad rap as some kind of oppressive fixed rule that can’t be violated, when actually tradition can be a more organic accumulation of the best ideas and practices that have endured across the generations.&quot;

Yeah, man!  Preach it!

It seems that for many (me included), the &quot;newer is better&quot; adage is not necessarily true.  I think this survey provides support for some of the postmodern ways of engaging truth like narratives, art, architecture, tradition, and experience instead of relying solely on propositional truth-filled sermons.

Very interesting info, Camron.  Enjoy Nashville :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Tradition has a bad rap as some kind of oppressive fixed rule that can’t be violated, when actually tradition can be a more organic accumulation of the best ideas and practices that have endured across the generations.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, man!  Preach it!</p>
<p>It seems that for many (me included), the &#8220;newer is better&#8221; adage is not necessarily true.  I think this survey provides support for some of the postmodern ways of engaging truth like narratives, art, architecture, tradition, and experience instead of relying solely on propositional truth-filled sermons.</p>
<p>Very interesting info, Camron.  Enjoy Nashville <img src='http://visualworshiper.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mark Seekins</title>
		<link>http://visualworshiper.com/blog/2009/05/not-of-this-world/comment-page-1/#comment-3837</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Seekins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 18:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://visualworshiper.com/blog/?p=302#comment-3837</guid>
		<description>Great stuff Cameron!  Definitely something for all of us &quot;in the church&quot; to think about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff Cameron!  Definitely something for all of us &#8220;in the church&#8221; to think about.</p>
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